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[REAL] Photon3K-First DIY retina projector (2880x1800) - Photo Heavy

 

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[REAL] Photon3K-First DIY retina projector (2880x1800) - Photo Heavy

n°202985
electroncr​az91
Posté le 27-01-2014 à 22:25:09  profilanswer
 

Greetings from the USA!
 
This may be the first? retina projector built, at least in the USA. It started when I heard the 15 inch Macbook Pro LCD had an astonishing resolution of 2880x1800 pixels! I researched the tear down of a retina Macbook and found out it was deportable (no cable running behind lcd)! Some guy in Slovakia had built a retina interface (mad props for Rozsnyo, www.rozsnyo.com). Go figure! Let just say I got a little too excited and bought the LCD from China for $200!  
 
Opening of retina LCD
http://i.imgur.com/TiNQoTs.jpg
 
 I've started on this project since June 2011. It was March 2013 when I got into the retina display. Balancing school and time for the projector, I really wanted to test it to make sure it works before spending a lot of money on a point light source. As you can see I put a lot of time into the box, making sure it does not stand out in my room as some ghetto piece of crap, instead made it blend in like nice furniture. I'll admit I spent way too much time perfecting the box.  :)  
 
Birch Stained with Minwax Gunstock with polyurethane
http://i.imgur.com/Ox6M2Wp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kpxcZeW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZtfKEfT.jpg
 
As of the start of 2014, I'm in my second semester of electrical engineering. Funny I'm going to engineering school and I'm building a projector along side of it! I will admit though, I did not have plans for the projector. No schematics or anything before I built the box. I had done some calculations on paper to meet the focal lengths, but basically I had no plans made out before doing this.  :pt1cable:  
 
Here is what I used in it so far.
 15inch Retina (2880x1800) LG LP154WT1-SJA2
 Rozsnyo dp2mbpr Interface Card  
 35 Watt Xenon H9/ no reflector (as of 2014 for testing purposes)
 F330 .2mm pitch Fresnel
 Motorized F330 Triplet Used from LumenLab
 Front surface mirror 8x10inch
 
I have a relay box that is remote controlled for power and focusing. I plan to set up dimming the light source as well when I decide what arc lamp to use. For now this is what I have.
 
Electric focus!
http://i.imgur.com/h3BH9k7.jpg
 
1920x1080p windowed movie at native resolution!
http://i.imgur.com/C5omuyT.jpg
 
Nice color production.
http://i.imgur.com/q2rls5J.jpg
 
Crysis 1-Scene before the boat.
http://i.imgur.com/7xb0qeE.jpg
 
6 meter Projection! HEHE
http://i.imgur.com/oNTtmAH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5BhAZvA.jpg
 
As you can see the pictures don't do their justice, the LCD is very sharp at 2880x1800. It's hard to take pictures of it and capture all the pixels.  
 
So there it is, first retina projector! I named the projector "Photon3K" before it was built, as the retina is close to 3000 horizontal lines. I really wanted to make this projector as "4K" televisions are slowly coming out. I wanted to make this projector future proof, useful for the next 10 years. I know 1080p will die out soon, besides you can't buy a      >1080p projector for less than $25,000!  :kaola:


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 08-02-2014 à 20:53:32
n°202986
Morb@ck
Posté le 28-01-2014 à 10:55:13  profilanswer
 

Super !
les coins me paraissent sombre.. ?
35w pour le xenon.. économie d'énergie.. mais la projection doit manquer un peu de luminosité ? Difficile de se rendre compte sur photo.. un kit xenon 100W ou une led de 100w serait plus sympas !
La carte contrôleur de Rozsnyo n'est pas donnée.. En tout cas ça doit être sympas comme résolution en projection..
 
Fais nous des photo avec des mires et donne tes paramètres de photographie (iso.., temps d'exposition..)

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par Morb@ck le 28-01-2014 à 17:34:49
mood
AdSPub
Posté le 28-01-2014 à 10:55:13  profilanswer
 

n°202987
allinside
All In Box=Tout dans une boîte
Posté le 28-01-2014 à 18:00:42  profilanswer
 

Hello
Good job, Congratulation
:sol:


Message édité par allinside le 28-01-2014 à 18:01:03

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Allinbox = All In Box = Tout dans une boîte
n°202988
electroncr​az91
Posté le 29-01-2014 à 03:09:41  profilanswer
 

Morb@ck a écrit :

Super !
les coins me paraissent sombre.. ?
35w pour le xenon.. économie d'énergie.. mais la projection doit manquer un peu de luminosité ? Difficile de se rendre compte sur photo.. un kit xenon 100W ou une led de 100w serait plus sympas !
La carte contrôleur de Rozsnyo n'est pas donnée.. En tout cas ça doit être sympas comme résolution en projection..
 
Fais nous des photo avec des mires et donne tes paramètres de photographie (iso.., temps d'exposition..)


 
This project is not complete at all! The 35w xenon is not mounted or aligned completely and the triplet is not aligned either! I'm thinking about moving the mirror up as well. But right now projection is looking well. As for the light source, I'm looking at Osram/sylvania short arc 250W or 400W with 3mm arc length. :whistle: The brightness is lacking (all lights in the room need to be turned off and let my eyes adjust). The dark corners are not as bad as shown in the photos. I will admit this is a very DARK LCD. The retina is not very transparent, you need a bright light to shine through it. But with a dark LCD you get great color and dark levels.  :)  
 
What is interesting with a high resolution LCD is that I can use the video card to crop the screen for a small wall and still get full HD 1080p. Youtube 4K videos look stunning and gaming has well rounded objects. I highly recommend the retina if you plan on projecting a 3-6 meter screen and sitting 2 meters in front of it. Sitting 5 meters back you start to squint your eyes to see the small text. Ceiling mount is a must. This projector does have keystone (trapezoid).
 
I'd say, the quality and resolution may be as close to real theatre projection if I can get a better light source.


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 29-01-2014 à 03:22:07
n°202992
skappy1
Posté le 29-01-2014 à 18:07:30  profilanswer
 

Salut à tous,  
 
Je suis intéressé par la construction d'un VP à base d'un LCD Retina (la résolution me fait baver ...) mais pour une raison d'encombrement j'aimerai partir sur un modèle de 7,9" et non 15"...
Auriez vous une idée d'un modèle  qui pourait convenir s'il vous plait ?
(reso : 2880x1800) ?
 
Merci beaucoup à tous pour le coup de main  
Bonne conitnuation dans vos projets et bonne fin de journée

n°202993
electroncr​az91
Posté le 29-01-2014 à 21:22:51  profilanswer
 

skappy1 a écrit :

Salut à tous,  
 
Je suis intéressé par la construction d'un VP à base d'un LCD Retina (la résolution me fait baver ...) mais pour une raison d'encombrement j'aimerai partir sur un modèle de 7,9" et non 15"...
Auriez vous une idée d'un modèle  qui pourait convenir s'il vous plait ?
(reso : 2880x1800) ?
 
Merci beaucoup à tous pour le coup de main  
Bonne conitnuation dans vos projets et bonne fin de journée


 
I think Rozsnyo still makes the interface cards for the iPad 3 retina (9.7inch @ 2048x1536, no idea what the model number is). I have no idea if the interface card is compatible for the iPad air (9.2inch) or mini (7.9inch). What I like about those screens is the smaller build that surpasses 1080p. In fact if you change your mind wanting the projector upright or sideways, it will be close to 864p if 16:9. At least nVidia will let you rotate, resize, color correct. But I decided I want a more "widescreen 16:10" projection than standard 4:3 giving me less horizontal bars for widescreen movies. I could lay it on it's size and still get 1800x1012 (16:9), close to 1080p.
 
I was going to use a free 4:3 1600x1200 laptop screen. It was very transparent, easy for the light to project through. However, since I was building a big projector already, I went with the retina. Retina has a lot more contrast and color reproduction/ at the cost of a darker LCD. I also knew about the "image retention" problem with retinas, only the new models of LG retinas(LG LP154WT1-SJA2) and the Samsungs DO NOT have screen retention. I have no idea what issues the iPad retinas have.
 
Hope this helps start DIY retina projections!

n°202994
Andrea72
Posté le 30-01-2014 à 12:09:39  profilanswer
 

Hello, i bought retina display, i 'm at my second projectin ,first in 2005, can tell me which is the better light for retina ?  
I have an osram hqi ts 400 w from 2005 but i think is insufficient for dark lcd
Thanks in advance

n°202995
electroncr​az91
Posté le 30-01-2014 à 15:42:44  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

Hello, i bought retina display, i 'm at my second projectin ,first in 2005, can tell me which is the better light for retina ?
I have an osram hqi ts 400 w from 2005 but i think is insufficient for dark lcd
Thanks in advance

 

Probably is insufficient. Unless you have a pitch dark room.

 

I have tried the retina with a 400w "CoralVue 6500" metal halide lamp with a 70mm arc length and no reflector. I'd say its comparable to a 55w xenon in place. It is a poor choice of light source because the retina needs a point source (and you want 10-3mm arc length with a good reflector) to sharply display the tiny pixels from center to edge. The 400w metal halide is a big arc light source, too much loss in brightness. I plan to get a 250w or 400w 3-5mm short arc Osram @ 7000k, but right now it's up in the air on the specific bulb. I also plan on fabricating my own reflector for the best possible light throw.

 

I don't know what retina you are using, I'm going to assume the Ipad retina. Ipad retina is going to be easier than the 15inch Macbook with no dark corners. I heard from other forums that a .2mm pitch fresnel displays pixels sharper than the regular .5mm pitch. I decided to get the .2mm for the retina, turns out it works very well.

 

If you do use an arc lamp though, place the arc perpendicular to the length of the LCD, not parallel. This will make the length of projection sharper. You can barely read text on the edges of a retina with a 70mm arc length! Go for short arc and use a small reflector.

 

I'm also testing LED's but my video card is being RMA'ed. :(

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par electroncraz91 le 30-01-2014 à 15:45:27
n°202996
Andrea72
Posté le 30-01-2014 à 16:49:22  profilanswer
 

electroncraz91 a écrit :


 
Probably is insufficient. Unless you have a pitch dark room.
 
I have tried the retina with a 400w "CoralVue 6500" metal halide lamp with a 70mm arc length and no reflector. I'd say its comparable to a 55w xenon in place. It is a poor choice of light source because the retina needs a point source (and you want 10-3mm arc length with a good reflector) to sharply display the tiny pixels from center to edge. The 400w metal halide is a big arc light source, too much loss in brightness. I plan to get a 250w or 400w 3-5mm short arc Osram @ 7000k, but right now it's up in the air on the specific bulb. I also plan on fabricating my own reflector for the best possible light throw.
 
I don't know what retina you are using, I'm going to assume the Ipad retina. Ipad retina is going to be easier than the 15inch Macbook with no dark corners. I heard from other forums that a .2mm pitch fresnel displays pixels sharper than the regular .5mm pitch. I decided to get the .2mm for the retina, turns out it works very well.
 
If you do use an arc lamp though, place the arc perpendicular to the length of the LCD, not parallel. This will make the length of projection sharper. You can barely read text on the edges of a retina with a 70mm arc length! Go for short arc and use a small reflector.
 
I'm also testing LED's but my video card is being RMA'ed. :(


 
 
U mean 1 like this http://www.osram.com/osram_com/pro [...] /index.jsp , 7000k? Not 6000? And i use same retina as you, i must buy controller from rosznyo.
If u find a solution for the light send me a message becouse i wait your choice,i trust in you! ;)
I bought this
Fresnel lens 395x320mm f550mm 0.2
A007 Aspherical lens Ø100 f80.5mm  
M041R2 Spherical reflector Ø70 f104mm  
FRL014 Fresnel lens 400x320mm f330mm 0.2
"Zoom Triplet lens
65mm CA with 310-360mm f.l.
Aluminum case, coated optics"
 
You think is correct?
Thanks
 
p.s what do you think Osram SharXS HTI 575 W/D4/60 6000k  4  lumen 49000  cd 49000 ?

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par Andrea72 le 30-01-2014 à 17:27:09
n°202997
electroncr​az91
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 04:49:22  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :


 
 
U mean 1 like this http://www.osram.com/osram_com/pro [...] /index.jsp , 7000k? Not 6000? And i use same retina as you, i must buy controller from rosznyo.
If u find a solution for the light send me a message becouse i wait your choice,i trust in you! ;)
I bought this
Fresnel lens 395x320mm f550mm 0.2
A007 Aspherical lens Ø100 f80.5mm  
M041R2 Spherical reflector Ø70 f104mm  
FRL014 Fresnel lens 400x320mm f330mm 0.2
"Zoom Triplet lens
65mm CA with 310-360mm f.l.
Aluminum case, coated optics"
 
You think is correct?
Thanks
 
p.s what do you think Osram SharXS HTI 575 W/D4/60 6000k  4  lumen 49000  cd 49000 ?


 
Should work if you use..
  Triplet f360mm
  F2 f330 Fresnel
  F1 f550 Fresnel
I don't about the objective and reflective stuff yet. I'm just going by bare bulb for now. But if you want to play with your reflectors and condensing lens, use this program http://jeanmarie.biansan.free.fr/optgeo.html its great for seeing light rays and combining different lenses and seeing how they interact with each other. You can also use it to figure out where to position mirrors if your doing a L or U path projector.
 
As for the light source, it's still up in the air. I'm looking for a lamp that is 250-400W, 6500-7500k ish, 3-5mm arc, 2000-3000hrs. and less than $150 USD. I have an old 400W electronic ballast from an old halide lamp, so it would be nice to use that. Here is a $95USD lamp from Osram http://ecom.sylvania.com/sylvaniab [...] ry=*54313*. It is possible to under drive it to 400W, bumping the color temperature up when running 60% (perhaps 7200-8000k?) here's some documentation http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/ [...] 3ab996.pdf  I'm also experimenting with LED too, but looks like no go.  :(
 
As for a reflector, I'm thinking about machining my own to be as small as possible in diameter yet be custom parabolic to meet the length of F1. I'm not considering a condenser lens yet because the custom made reflector. I need to research deeper into parabolas and their relations of their focal lengths.
 
Best of luck to your retina projector.  :sol:


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 31-01-2014 à 04:51:38
mood
Crieto
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 04:49:22  profilanswer
 

n°202998
skappy1
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 07:49:09  profilanswer
 

Hi,
May I ask you where i can purchase the necessary optical stuff please ?
Can't wait to discover your improvement.
Have a nice day & good luck with your projects...
 

n°202999
Andrea72
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 11:43:18  profilanswer
 

skappy1 a écrit :

Hi,
May I ask you where i can purchase the necessary optical stuff please ?
Can't wait to discover your improvement.
Have a nice day & good luck with your projects...
 


me or electroncrazy?

n°203000
skappy1
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 14:24:23  profilanswer
 

Hi,  
 
I will be very glad to get information from the both side ...
Thank you at you two for your kindness and your patience .
Have a nice day  

n°203001
electroncr​az91
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 17:54:58  profilanswer
 

skappy1 a écrit :

Hi,  
 
I will be very glad to get information from the both side ...
Thank you at you two for your kindness and your patience .
Have a nice day  


 
*Bare LCD retina shipped from china found on eBay for $200, price may be higher
*Rozsyno Interface DP to eDP for rMBP for $115 on his website, price might be higher or unavailable
*Inteface to retina cable on eBay for $20  
*2PK Fresnel F330 400x320mm? on Aliexpress for $70
*Used DIY projector parts (mostly from LumenLab, now dead) including triplet F330, fresnels, 400W MH w/ Ballast found on eBay for $100
*Wooden box is made of Birch plywood, stained with Minwax, and coated with polyurethane all bought at Home Depot for $130
 
As you can see I'm not skipping quality for cost savings. I want a really nice projector to game and watch movies during daylight. The total cost of the project will be around $900USD, compared to the next projector up that is >1080p, Sony's $25,000 4K  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VPL-VW1 [...] B0077R5KXG  :lol:  
 
As for light source, still undecided, probably will buy osram/sylvania short arc lamp.

n°203002
Andrea72
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 18:32:52  profilanswer
 

skappy1 a écrit :

Hi,  
 
I will be very glad to get information from the both side ...
Thank you at you two for your kindness and your patience .
Have a nice day  


Lcd and controller same  
Fresnel+Triplet+condenser+reflector optolife.com  
temperate glass don't remember (2005)
bulbe 400w ballast radium old from 2005 but i buy new , need to decide what.....
where is an image photography or cinema the problem is forever the light!
wood...
i think is good to speak about a projector retina here , if someone found something good pm here!
bye

n°203003
Andrea72
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 18:34:50  profilanswer
 

electroncraz91 a écrit :


As you can see I'm not skipping quality for cost savings. I want a really nice projector to game and watch movies during daylight. The total cost of the project will be around $900USD, compared to the next projector up that is >1080p, Sony's $25,000 4K  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VPL-VW1 [...] B0077R5KXG  :lol:  
.


 
yes! but is free shipping ;)

n°203004
Andrea72
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 18:54:02  profilanswer
 

just a question for electrocrazy , i must search a lamp for lm or other
example short arc 400w have about 15000 lm but a bulb have about 40000lm, why you search for short arc
like this two
http://www.osram.it/media/resource/hoverimage/320580/powerstar-hqi-ts-400w-d-pro.jpg   50000 lm
http://www.osram.it/media/resource/hoverimage/324144/xbo-3000w-hs-cl.jpg 15000lm
http://www.osram.it/media/resource/hoverimage/46382/hmi-metal-halide-lamps.jpg or this 50000lm

 


http://cdn.getalamp.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/265x265/a3ae926919790964e6b81347683480f8/4/0/40578.jpg or this 600w 600000cd

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par Andrea72 le 31-01-2014 à 19:01:43
n°203005
skappy1
Posté le 31-01-2014 à 21:35:21  profilanswer
 

Thank you very much for all these informations guys, i will have a look ...

n°203006
electroncr​az91
Posté le 01-02-2014 à 01:56:03  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

just a question for electrocrazy , i must search a lamp for lm or other
example short arc 400w have about 15000 lm but a bulb have about 40000lm, why you search for short arc
like this two
http://www.osram.it/media/resource [...] -d-pro.jpg   50000 lm
http://www.osram.it/media/resource [...] -hs-cl.jpg 15000lm
http://www.osram.it/media/resource [...] -lamps.jpg or this 50000lm
 
 
http://cdn.getalamp.com/media/cata [...] /40578.jpg or this 600w 600000cd


 
Just got my GTX760 in the mail and took some pictures.
Here is a demonstration of "arc lengths" and how a smaller arc length has effect on sharpness on a retina.  I have 2 light sources; a  
  *200w LED driven to 45w that is 50mm x 50mm
  *35W xenon with 1mm x 4mm arc, positioned perpendicular to the LCD's length.  
 
LED-50mm x 50mm "arc" +Square to LCD
http://i.imgur.com/xjMGSVG.jpg
Xenon- 1mm x 4mm arc + Perpendicular to LCD
http://i.imgur.com/knQrd9e.jpg
 
Results- Photo taken of text in center of projection.
LED
http://i.imgur.com/CQA6PyF.jpg
Xenon
http://i.imgur.com/nSJAWMD.jpg
 
Results- Photo taken of text on left edge of projection.
LED
http://i.imgur.com/Ni0ZslE.jpg
Xenon
http://i.imgur.com/FDeBSTJ.jpg
 
As you can see the LED appears okay in the center, but as the projection goes to the left or right the text is fuzzy and barely readable, no individual pixels can be seen. In order to read text at native resolution, you need to drag letters to the center of projection
 
With the short arc xenon, text is legible but with "screen door" effect, but as the projection goes to the left or right, text stays somewhat sharp enough to read throughout the entire projection. Lens chromatic aberration in the corners is due to the poorly made triplet/fresnels.
 
So we have learned, to maximize sharpness we need a short arc. We can use a reflector, but a wide reflector will expand into a bigger arc length. Unless you have a perfect cut sphere and perfect compatible condenser lens with it, it is possible to use any size reflector.  I must use a short arc and make the reflector as small as possible.  
 
Here is another thing to consider when buying a lamp. To get the maximum light output, do not rely merely on lumens output. Instead calculate Total Lumens/(light area or arc length).  
Example:
 Lamp #1: 400W,  40000lm, 70mm arc
  40000lm/70mm= 571 lm per mm
 Lamp#2: 35W, 4000lm, 4mm arc
  4000lm/4mm= 1000 lm per mm
 
Clearly the 35W xenon is more efficient with handling light, and with the proper reflector equals or beats the 400W arc lamp. There is a trade off, if you want brighter projection/blurry corners, use a large arc length. If you want slightly less? or more brightness/sharp corners, use a smaller arc lamp with compatible reflector(or sphere+condensor).
 
I hope this clarifies things, the retina is a very complex LCD and the optics need to be well engineered.


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 01-02-2014 à 02:06:27
n°203007
Andrea72
Posté le 01-02-2014 à 09:31:05  profilanswer
 

Thanks! but if i understand a lamp like Osram SharXS HTI 575 W/D4/60 6000k  4 length then 49000/4=12000 about of lumens is ok? ( i know low life)
Which is the minimum of lumen for mm?
and is indispensable the spere? (sphere u mean this?)
http://www.optolife.com/ohp/M025a.jpg
or like this
http://www.osram.it/media/resource/hoverimage/313771/hxp-mercury-short-arc-lamps.jpg
3 and last question optimal is 6200k?

 

thanks

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par Andrea72 le 01-02-2014 à 09:33:08
mood
AdSPub
Posté le 01-02-2014 à 09:31:05  profilanswer
 

n°203008
electroncr​az91
Posté le 02-02-2014 à 03:49:07  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

Thanks! but if i understand a lamp like Osram SharXS HTI 575 W/D4/60 6000k  4 length then 49000/4=12000 about of lumens is ok? ( i know low life)
Which is the minimum of lumen for mm?
and is indispensable the spere? (sphere u mean this?)
3 and last question optimal is 6200k?


1. Should be okay. I use the lm/mm^2 to estimate a comparison to my other bulbs. It should not be used as a comparison in different projectors! Optics can be very different! Rather, it should be used as a buying guide for lamps, higher is better.  
 
2. I don't know, optics vary from projector to projector. You could have a reflector-less bulb with same lm/mm^2, and the same bulb with a properly positioned reflector and condenser lens. The two will produce different results! So from my own estimated guess with a BARE BULB with no reflector, a minimum lamp of 3000lm/mm^2 (assuming F1-330,F2-330,F330 triplet, projection distance 2m w/15in retina) is needed to project with decent brightness in a dark room. I don't have a lux meter, I should invest in one though.
 
But lets understand how the reflector works...
Here is an example of the optics in my projector in the program OptGeo.
http://i.imgur.com/AsFpQx4.jpg
 
Here is where the triplet should go, notice how sharp the photons intersect each other. This is because the optics are in perfect alignment, and we are using a point source (short arc).
http://i.imgur.com/VigcNBy.jpg
 
This is an example of what the 50x50mm LED looks like, notice they are not intersecting at a small point. This causes the projected edges to be blurry and "out of focus".
http://i.imgur.com/ydKv7Ac.jpg
 
Here is a perfect example of the reflector and condenser lens setup. A perfect sphere reflector is used and the point light source is at the radius of the reflector. A convex thick lens is used to correct the photons towards the Fresnels, rather than wasting them from the sides. The condenser lens should be positioned as close to the arc lamp as possible (but not touching). Judging in the program, it seems any lens taken from a glass magnifier will work, but I'm not yet up to speed on deciding the best specs for the condensing lens.
http://i.imgur.com/lRLRyij.jpg
 
Now onto the reflector. You must have the arc lamp perfectly positioned in the projector, otherwise you will get light loss and blurred edges! The LCD(F1 and F2) isn't even fully lit! This is if you place the reflector 3mm closer to the light source (assuming reflector is perfect half sphere). Now you see why we must have perfect alignment? Knowing the exact radius of the reflector is a must! I advise not buying the lamps with the reflector. Unless you can find one with a half sphere and datasheets, skip it.
http://i.imgur.com/fSGXc2j.jpg
 
3. I get different people saying 5200k is good, 6500k is best, 7200k is used in commercial projectors. Because I own a 13" Macbook Retina that displays really nice white light with an LED backlight, chances are it uses cool white LED's in the 6000-6800k range. So if you buy a lamp of 6500k and decide it's too yellow, it's not the end of the world. Most graphics cards can set the global color of the LCD or use some other calibration software. Make sure to use a UV filter with arc lamps, can yellow the LCD and I have seen that happen on commercial projectors! Not good! :ouch:


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 02-02-2014 à 04:04:14
n°203009
Andrea72
Posté le 02-02-2014 à 18:56:12  profilanswer
 

thanks for all information, i think i''l buy this
OSRAM SYLVANIA HTI 700w /D4/60
arc length 4
 Base SFc10-4
Bulb Type High Intensity Discharge Bulbs (HID)
Color Rendering Index (CRI) 80
Color Temperature (K) 6000K
Lamp Finish Clear
Luminous Flux (LM) 59000
Maximum Overall Length (in) 5.35
Rated Life (Hours) 750
Shape Double-Ended
Voltage (V) 70V
Wattage (W) 700W
 
hope will be the good choice

n°203010
electroncr​az91
Posté le 02-02-2014 à 20:16:09  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

thanks for all information, i think i''l buy this
OSRAM SYLVANIA HTI 700w /D4/60
arc length 4
 Base SFc10-4
Bulb Type High Intensity Discharge Bulbs (HID)
Color Rendering Index (CRI) 80
Color Temperature (K) 6000K
Lamp Finish Clear
Luminous Flux (LM) 59000
Maximum Overall Length (in) 5.35
Rated Life (Hours) 750
Shape Double-Ended
Voltage (V) 70V
Wattage (W) 700W
 
hope will be the good choice


I think that will be okay, not fond of the low hours though. The 6000k is measured after bulb break in. As the lamp ages it goes up in temperature so there is some room for that. Good luck!

n°203011
Andrea72
Posté le 06-02-2014 à 17:11:03  profilanswer
 

Hi electroncraz91, today arrived retina monitor same of your, there is' some film/coating to take off from the panel? in front and rear?, i see one in back like a mirror, is only this or there others? ieee is very very fragile...

n°203012
electroncr​az91
Posté le 08-02-2014 à 01:31:16  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

Hi electroncraz91, today arrived retina monitor same of your, there is' some film/coating to take off from the panel? in front and rear?, i see one in back like a mirror, is only this or there others? ieee is very very fragile...


Ah yes, there is a film to peel off on front and on back. Be careful with it, I carefully peeled it off parallel to LCD on a glass table with the packaging sleeve underneath. I did this right before gluing to the "frame" of the projector to minimize scratches (I was playing with it before gluing it to make sure it worked). The "silver" like coating stays on. At least I don't have to remove the anti-glare on a $200 LCD!  :D  
 
Have you gotten your interface yet? On the Rozsyno interface it detects the backlight. Since there is no backlight, you must trick it to make it work. After it's done, you do not need to "trick" it every time it is powered on. :)


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 08-02-2014 à 01:41:12
n°203013
Andrea72
Posté le 08-02-2014 à 09:31:01  profilanswer
 

I found the 2 film to peel off.
My version of rozsnyo interface card is without backlight, (ordered, i wait for shipping) because i explained to he what i need.
But i know that rozsnyo now studying and design a version dedicated only to projector , more cheap but have all you need for projector.Not ready at the moment.
Now i ' looking for the bulb .Difficult to find bulb, base, ballast in the same shop.
 

n°203017
Andrea72
Posté le 14-02-2014 à 11:17:21  profilanswer
 

Electron what do you use to connect pc to dp, all i saw (dp2hdmi max resolution 1920x1080 or 1920x1200) ?
Thanks

n°203018
electroncr​az91
Posté le 15-02-2014 à 02:51:58  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :

Electron what do you use to connect pc to dp, all i saw (dp2hdmi max resolution 1920x1080 or 1920x1200) ?
Thanks


The interface I bought off Rozsyno is the displayport to edisplayport one. So I have a direct connection with displayport from my video card to the Rozsnyo interface. It supports full 2880x1800.
 
With HDMI, there are revisions you need to pay attention to. If you have an old graphics card, it may be v1.0 and that's why the max resolution is 1920x1200. HDMI 1.4 supports UHD, so it may be time to update the video card. It seems I don't have the same interface card that you have? I would email Rozsnyo what HDMI version his interface supports before upgrading the video card.

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par electroncraz91 le 15-02-2014 à 02:52:49
n°203019
electroncr​az91
Posté le 15-02-2014 à 04:07:02  profilanswer
 

I have some more time this weekend to work on the Photon3K. The triplet lens was held by a shim and out of alignment. I also need to fasten a door on it with a hinge and a latching mechanism. Here's what the door looks like. Painted it black to stop stray light from leaving the box and bouncing discolored light back through the LCD. After the door is mounted, I plan on getting thin weatherstrip seal to completely seal the light from inside.
http://i.imgur.com/Yl1SuMt.jpg?4
http://i.imgur.com/6yavkzh.jpg
 
Since I am installing the triplet motor assembly, I need to align the triplet. To do so, I did not merely rely on measurement, but rather light source position. The retina has that reflective coating on the back of the LCD. Since the fresnel lens is made to take a point source light and spread it into parallel rays, it must reflect the light and bend it back to the light engine. Here's a setup with a circle LED radius of 1.5mm. You notice the light on the bottom of the light engine frame? We want that light to be a small dot and the light source in the center of the dot.
http://i.imgur.com/Y7rJQC7.jpg  
Use a hole in a piece of paper to find the smallest dot.
http://i.imgur.com/2YvLIZL.jpg
Hold the paper so the LED is inside the hole and flush with the LED die. The photo shows a smaller dot; however, it is not over the LED.
http://i.imgur.com/050jDpe.jpg
Focal point is now centered on LED. The light source is in perfect alignment with the LCD!
http://i.imgur.com/lVam09D.jpg
Now move the triplet so that the light source is dead center with the triplet!
http://i.imgur.com/mfU8i4O.jpg
 
Optics are now aligned! Some say it's not aligned perfectly without measurement but the optics are not perfect either! I've played with it enough to know there are things you can get away with and some you can't.


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 15-02-2014 à 04:25:03
n°203020
Andrea72
Posté le 15-02-2014 à 10:53:27  profilanswer
 

electroncraz91 a écrit :


The interface I bought off Rozsyno is the displayport to edisplayport one. So I have a direct connection with displayport from my video card to the Rozsnyo interface. It supports full 2880x1800.
 
With HDMI, there are revisions you need to pay attention to. If you have an old graphics card, it may be v1.0 and that's why the max resolution is 1920x1200. HDMI 1.4 supports UHD, so it may be time to update the video card. It seems I don't have the same interface card that you have? I would email Rozsnyo what HDMI version his interface supports before upgrading the video card.


 
We have the same interface but i don't have at the moment the cable , (do you use dp 2 hdmi or dp3dp for pc?) . so i started to search on internet to but but much times i saw "max resolution 1920x1080 (dp2hdmi) so i asked.At the moment i don't have cable and light, light come next week , i bought. So i can start to test all. I have 4 fresnel 2x 200f 1 330f 1 500f and triplet 310/360 i think the correct is 550+330.
Thanks

mood
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Posté le 15-02-2014 à 10:53:27  profilanswer
 

n°203021
electroncr​az91
Posté le 15-02-2014 à 14:18:18  profilanswer
 

Andrea72 a écrit :


 
We have the same interface but i don't have at the moment the cable , (do you use dp 2 hdmi or dp3dp for pc?) . so i started to search on internet to but but much times i saw "max resolution 1920x1080 (dp2hdmi) so i asked.At the moment i don't have cable and light, light come next week , i bought. So i can start to test all. I have 4 fresnel 2x 200f 1 330f 1 500f and triplet 310/360 i think the correct is 550+330.
Thanks


I have an EVGA GTX760 that has native displayport on the back of it. I run no adapters/converters with the retina, only just a copper cable (DP<=>DP). Ah, it seems you don't have native displayport output so your converting HDMI -> DP? That requires an active HDMI->DP adapter, but it only goes to 1920x1200 http://ca.startech.com/AV/Converte [...] er~HDMI2DP and $$$ :kaola: . You can upgrade your video card for that much. You simply can't use a passive DP->HDMI and run it backwards (HDMI->DP).  
 
As for the little cable that runs from the lcd to the interface, I found that on ebay used for $15.
Hope this clarifies things.

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par electroncraz91 le 15-02-2014 à 14:20:15
n°203022
Andrea72
Posté le 15-02-2014 à 15:00:03  profilanswer
 

electroncraz91 a écrit :


I have an EVGA GTX760 that has native displayport on the back of it. I run no adapters/converters with the retina, only just a copper cable (DP<=>DP). Ah, it seems you don't have native displayport output so your converting HDMI -> DP? That requires an active HDMI->DP adapter, but it only goes to 1920x1200 http://ca.startech.com/AV/Converte [...] er~HDMI2DP and $$$ :kaola: . You can upgrade your video card for that much. You simply can't use a passive DP->HDMI and run it backwards (HDMI->DP).  
 
As for the little cable that runs from the lcd to the interface, I found that on ebay used for $15.
Hope this clarifies things.


 
 
Yes ... i must change video card ....

n°203030
Andrea72
Posté le 21-02-2014 à 16:03:19  profilanswer
 

Sharxs 700w arrived ... A bomb of light , very doungerous too , in two i start test and post photos, Anyone know where i can buy a tempered glass uv stop?
Thanks

n°203032
electroncr​az91
Posté le 23-02-2014 à 03:31:46  profilanswer
 

Well I had some more time to put the door on. I also put weather stripping on to seal out stray light. :) Here's some photos of the progress. Had to be careful to cut the hole in the door and align it perfectly with the electric focus. Finally polished the focus system to work both ways flawlessly. ;)  
http://i.imgur.com/dRZVHDQ.jpg?3
http://i.imgur.com/YN6DSx2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jvLXvXI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4uIAmc7.jpg
 
Now I need to start moving towards the light engine.  :bounce:


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 23-02-2014 à 03:32:23
n°203069
electroncr​az91
Posté le 17-03-2014 à 02:20:44  profilanswer
 

Well I just finished spring break and ordered some more parts. I purchased an Arduino with a relay board to control things like the lamp, the LCD, and the fans. I integrated the remote controller with the Arduino so I could have better control and upgrade things if I want in the future. For now I'll just let the Arduino toggle relays and setup a cooling fan delay during power down. I'm also thinking of adding fan control PWM that is coupled with a thermal resistor to quiet things down (you also do not want to cool the lamp too much). Here's the board I'll mount once I get done programming.
http://i.imgur.com/wzDLhUs.jpg?1
 
I just ordered a 600W dimmable solis electronic ballast on eBay, and a knock off(for testing purposes, and it could be as good as osram?) 575W HMI bulb with a 7mm arc gap and 6000K, all for under $150. I figured the 7mm gap won't be too bad. 6000K wouldn't be too yellow and if it is, I can configure Nvidia to change temperature, or run the lamp at a lower wattage. :) I've got a UV filter from a broken DLP projector and a condensing lens from a kodak projector. Also put a circuit breaker for protection and as a main switch and used a C14 (mains connector on standard computer PSU's) for mains 120V connection.

n°203070
gigogig
Posté le 17-03-2014 à 06:08:20  profilanswer
 

cant wait to see the new bulb in place, with a proper reflector and possible an e-torl reflector i can emagian that this will be real bright, although i have 2 100w leds and a 100w hid kit comming for my projectors that i hope will atlest tide me over for my needs, if they work alright for what i want ill start to build something with a better resolution myself. i would love to know if you were doing this slightly more budget friendly what you think could possibly be lower quality (cheaper) in the build. the other thing i wonder is, i seem to remember that larger lcd screens were far harder to make work in a projector, so would it possibly be worth waiting for say an galaxy s5 4k screen or is getting the alignment on the apple screen ez?

n°203071
electroncr​az91
Posté le 17-03-2014 à 15:42:35  profilanswer
 

gigogig a écrit :

cant wait to see the new bulb in place, with a proper reflector and possible an e-torl reflector i can emagian that this will be real bright, although i have 2 100w leds and a 100w hid kit comming for my projectors that i hope will atlest tide me over for my needs, if they work alright for what i want ill start to build something with a better resolution myself. i would love to know if you were doing this slightly more budget friendly what you think could possibly be lower quality (cheaper) in the build. the other thing i wonder is, i seem to remember that larger lcd screens were far harder to make work in a projector, so would it possibly be worth waiting for say an galaxy s5 4k screen or is getting the alignment on the apple screen ez?


 
This project is my first build, so I will have some inexperience and obviously make mistakes sometimes. I haven't researched much until I tested an LCD and some lenses for the best quality. And that was my main reason for picking out the highest resolution screen. I didn't want to build a 1600x1200 projector that was the same size as the retina, and have it be outdated within 5 years. The retina will look the same compared to a real 4K and the projector should have a long service life. But with the 15inch retina, optics need to be held at a higher standard than a smaller screen (small arc length, tighter fresnel pitch, high quality triplet). But as I presented above about the different light sources and their arc lengths, the bigger arc length let the pixels in the middle of the screen be in focus but the corners were completely out of focus. Which means if you have a smaller screen (say an iPad retina), then your light source doesn't have to have a lamp with a small arc. In other words, the smaller the screen, the lower standard of choosing a small bulb, and you can buy a cheaper lamp. EDIT: I'm talking about the F330 fresnel here, I'm not advocating this for ALL different focal length lenses.
 
But budget wise for a "retina" projector, I'd say the iPad is the way to go, it's around $50 on eBay, $100 for a controller, buy the .2 pitch fresnels and triplet, the bulb can now be a cheaper, longer arc length bulb that runs longer (longer arc generally = longer life). I don't know about the galaxy screen, I don't know if anyone will make an interface for it? Right now the retina has an interface and it is probably the best way to go for $150 or less. I went with the bigger screen just because the budget I had could do it (and it beats the price of the sony commercial projector, a DIY worth doing :) ).


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 18-03-2014 à 02:31:32
n°203072
electroncr​az91
Posté le 18-03-2014 à 03:11:15  profilanswer
 

gigogig a écrit :

is getting the alignment on the apple screen ez?


 
Yes and no. The screen is big, so a short arc must be used to focus everything in the corners and that arc lamp must be in the radius of the half sphere, that's going to make a major difference in light quality and focus. For the lamp I will make a light box into a windtunnel for cooling, while housing adjustments for side to side (end to end) and reflector position (height) so if there are any manufacturing deformities in lamp production, I can compensate for that. But I also want to make it easy to replace when the bulb fails. This will probably be the most delicate thing to make for the project.  
 
And part of me wants to say no, the rest of the alignment for the triplet and fresnels were quite straightforward. I got the fresnels cut as close as possible so the center dot on fresnel is 1mm off from LCD center. This really does not have much impact except uneven focus on one side of the screen, which I can't even notice at all. Triplet position isn't complicated either, just make sure it is parallel to the screen and if using an L shaped box, make sure by playing around with the triplet while lamp is running to see where your projection is throwing. I personally feel that alignment by measurement is necessary, yet try moving things around before drilling holes and making permanent things. Who knows, you could screw something up in the math and the alignment would be off. I did this with the triplet shimmed between the sides, getting a sense of what happens when I deliberately distort the image, before permanently drilling things in place. But overall, there hasn't been a problem with alignment, at least yet so far...  :whistle:  

n°203073
electroncr​az91
Posté le 19-03-2014 à 23:59:10  profilanswer
 

Lamp came in the mail today! Wow I thought it would be smaller, but turns out it fits my half sphere reflector perfectly. :) The lamp is a Chinese knock off of the Osram/Sylvania HMI575W/DXS or 54313. The Chinese bulb cost me $30 and it is the Roccer RSI 575W/2. Runs on a 95 volt ballast, so it is compatible with a standard metal halide ballast (some short arc lamps require 50v sustain). I figured since I'm playing with it to get specs and experiment, I'd buy a cheap bulb incase of accidental breakage. It might not last as long or give good light like the $86 Osram, but it will do for now. Here's what it looks like...
http://i.imgur.com/YeveWsW.jpg?1
 
U.S. Penny for scale..  5mm LED for you european folks. :)
 
From glass to glass measures 3.31 inches, metal to metal is 5.34 inches. Does anyone on this forum know how to fix the scratches in the reflective coating of the half sphere? Can I repair it with some type of highly reflective/mirror spray paint?


Message édité par electroncraz91 le 20-03-2014 à 00:10:51
n°203074
electroncr​az91
Posté le 21-03-2014 à 22:13:41  profilanswer
 

Ballast arrived! I couldn't believe how heavy it was! The Solis 400w-600w ballast weighs 10 pounds and is 40x15x9 cm! Way better and heavier than my 400w chinese ballast. Grabbed it used on ebay for $120 (barely used, slight scratch, had everything included on it). This monster is so heavy I will have to take it out of the projector in order to move it. Now onto the bulb test, my chinese ballast couldn't sustain the arc (due to cheapness?), but the Solis started it right away on the 400w setting! I didn't want to run the bulb for long (no active cooling). During warm up there was flicker but the flicker evened out as the bulb went towards steady state temperatures. I don't think I got the bulb to steady state but dang the light and heat coming off that thing was something I've never seen before! Can't wait to put this badboy in and project during the day! Next project is to make the light box with quiet cooling.
 
SolisTek 400w/600w STK600  
http://www.seedsetc.com/images/SOLISTEK600WBALLAST.jpg

mood
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[REAL] Photon3K-First DIY retina projector (2880x1800) - Photo Heavy